My wife is Thai, and she moved to live with me in July 2014. For various reasons, her son has lived with his Grandparents most of his life so far, and is still in Thailand now, but with the hope he'll join us once my wife has found her feet in Europe.
We decided a while ago that it would be best for her to come to Europe and see how she settles before uprooting her son ... leaving her with the option of returning to Thailand if the life here really didn't suit her. That also meant that her son could visit Europe during some of his school holidays, to see how he felt about moving here.
And so, with dates set (last week of October) for his first visit to Germany, it came time to apply for his visa (you can't just apply for an open visa, AFAIK, you have to have specific dates, and it's not possible to apply more than 3 months ahead of time for the visa). Once you've been through it a few times, it's not as daunting a process as it initially seems ... but of course, for a minor to apply, there are a few extra things to do! ... :O)
All the information on the Visa Application process is in a useful website (http:\\bangkok.diplo.de) with is available in 2 languages (German and Thai ... there's a rant for another day! :O) ). The section about visa applications is here: www.bangkok.diplo.de/.../08/0-Visabestimmungen.html. With this page (.../08/Touristenvisum.html) all about applying for a tourist visa, including to visit family and friends. There are links to online applications, lists of the documents you need ... really useful stuff!
And then, there is the following:
translated it means:
It seemed there was no "standard form" .. .generally we were told an Einverstandniserklärung is a "Declaration of Understanding" ... you write down what you what to say, and sign it (obvious really!) ... yes, but this is a legal document (I said)... does it need a form? ... Is there "proper wording"? ... where do we get it signed? No-one was able (or perhaps willing) to tell us.
So I asked a lawyer, who suggested I should speak to the Consulate in Bangkok to ensure I have the correct wording they were expecting... Sooooooooooo ...
We decided a while ago that it would be best for her to come to Europe and see how she settles before uprooting her son ... leaving her with the option of returning to Thailand if the life here really didn't suit her. That also meant that her son could visit Europe during some of his school holidays, to see how he felt about moving here.
And so, with dates set (last week of October) for his first visit to Germany, it came time to apply for his visa (you can't just apply for an open visa, AFAIK, you have to have specific dates, and it's not possible to apply more than 3 months ahead of time for the visa). Once you've been through it a few times, it's not as daunting a process as it initially seems ... but of course, for a minor to apply, there are a few extra things to do! ... :O)
All the information on the Visa Application process is in a useful website (http:\\bangkok.diplo.de) with is available in 2 languages (German and Thai ... there's a rant for another day! :O) ). The section about visa applications is here: www.bangkok.diplo.de/.../08/0-Visabestimmungen.html. With this page (.../08/Touristenvisum.html) all about applying for a tourist visa, including to visit family and friends. There are links to online applications, lists of the documents you need ... really useful stuff!
And then, there is the following:
Sind Sie thailändischer Staatsangehörigkeit unter 18 Jahren müssen Ihre Sorgeberechtigten (in der Regel die Eltern) zur Antragstellung mitkommen und den Antrag unterschreiben. Sollten die Sorgeberechtigten verhindert sein, kann der von den Eltern unterschriebene Antrag mit einer Einverständniskeitserklärung gestellt werden. Die Unterschrift auf der Einverständniskeitserklärung muss jedoch vom thailändischen Bezirksamt oder wenn die Eltern sich in Deutschland aufhalten, von einer deutschen Behörde beglaubigt sein. Stimmt nur ein Elternteil zu, so muss nachgewiesen werden, dass dieser alleine sorgeberechtigt ist.(the highlighting is straight from the website)
translated it means:
If you are a Thai National under 18 years old, the adult who has custody (normally the parents) must accompany you to the application centre, and must sign the Application. If the people with custody are unable to attend a representative of the parents can sign the Application providing they produce an "Einverstandniskeitserklärung". However, the signature on the "Einverstandniskeiterklärung" must be certified by the Thai district office or, if the parents reside in Germany, by a German authority. Where only a single parent signs, it must be demonstrated that the parent has sole custody.No problem! We thought ... so where's this form to sign? ... and so it began...
It seemed there was no "standard form" .. .generally we were told an Einverstandniserklärung is a "Declaration of Understanding" ... you write down what you what to say, and sign it (obvious really!) ... yes, but this is a legal document (I said)... does it need a form? ... Is there "proper wording"? ... where do we get it signed? No-one was able (or perhaps willing) to tell us.
So I asked a lawyer, who suggested I should speak to the Consulate in Bangkok to ensure I have the correct wording they were expecting... Sooooooooooo ...
I sent an email to the Consulate in Bangkok. After explaining the situation I wrote the following (in German and English):
From the website, we did see the people who want to Accompany him need an Einverstandniskeiterklärung signed in the foreign authority in Nuremberg ... but:
Is this document downloadable from the internet?
- we can not find this document online and
- We have spoken with a lawyer and he sent us back to the embassy to Bangkok to get the document.
- If so, can you please send us a link?
- If not:
- can you please advise us how to get this form? or
- how the document is worded so the lawyer can do it?
So what reply did I get from the Consulate?
In the meantime, my wife is searching the Thai forums looking for guidance. The advice there was that we would have to drive to Berlin (450km), to the Thai Embassy, with her legal documents showing she has custody, and they would prepare, and sign the document for us.
This didn't sound right to me since EVERYWHERE I looked was clear that the document has to be signed in, and certified by, a German Authority when the parent is resident in Germany.
The Auswärtiges Amt (Foreign Office) in Berlin are really friendly, and helpful, and they have a telephone number for English speakers! They sent a request on our behalf to the Consulate in Bangkok asking for guidance. And replied one day later with the following:
Getting it certified was the easy part ... a trip to the Rathaus, and a fee of 10€ ... simple, straight-forward and no hassle!
That was 6 WEEKS! -- No, I'm not joking! --- 6 weeks of:
Bei der erforderlichen Einverständniserklärung handelt es sich um eine beglaubigte Vollmacht, die von der Antragstellerin auszustellen ist. Des Weiteren muss eine Beglaubigung der Vollmacht/Einverständniserklärung durch das thailändische Bezirksamt oder wenn sich der sorgeberechtigte Elternteil in Deutschland aufhält, von einer deutschen Behörde durchgeführt werden.
Bitte beachten Sie außerdem, dass das alleinige Sorgerecht Ihrer Frau für ihren Sohn nachgewiesen werden muss.
Sie finden diese und weitere Informationen auch unter dem nachfolgenden Link:
http://www.bangkok.diplo.de/Vertretung/bangkok/de/08/Besuchsvisum.html(translated, and paraphrased ... )
You need a certified "Einverstandniserkläung" signed by the parent with sole custody.
You can find this, and more, information here:
http://www.bangkok.diplo.de/Vertretung/bangkok/de/08/Besuchsvisum.htmlYou could have heard the scream of frustration at the other end of Germany!
In the meantime, my wife is searching the Thai forums looking for guidance. The advice there was that we would have to drive to Berlin (450km), to the Thai Embassy, with her legal documents showing she has custody, and they would prepare, and sign the document for us.
This didn't sound right to me since EVERYWHERE I looked was clear that the document has to be signed in, and certified by, a German Authority when the parent is resident in Germany.
The Auswärtiges Amt (Foreign Office) in Berlin are really friendly, and helpful, and they have a telephone number for English speakers! They sent a request on our behalf to the Consulate in Bangkok asking for guidance. And replied one day later with the following:
There is no special form to fill in, your wife can write the authorization herself, but the signature has to be confirmed by an official authority or a notary public in Germany.Armed with this, and the rest of the emails I had stacked up, I went back to the lawyer, who provided a statement in English and German which I went on to form into a document. I've put a PDF template of it here (LINK) in case anyone else wants it!
Getting it certified was the easy part ... a trip to the Rathaus, and a fee of 10€ ... simple, straight-forward and no hassle!
That was 6 WEEKS! -- No, I'm not joking! --- 6 weeks of:
- internet searching
- questions at the Foreign Office in Nuernberg
- emails to a lawyer
- questions at to the Foreign Office in Berlin
- calls to the Consulate in Bangkok
- questions at to the Foreign Office in Berlin
- emails to the Consulate in Bangkok
- (finally) calls and emails to a lawyer in Nuernberg
This post hasn't been particularly comical (except for the schadenfreude element) .. but I hope, perhaps, it might just save someone the headache I have experienced over the last month and a half!
Good Luck :O)
Nick
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